Hi Guys.

Just came to rip my new Oasis Repress LP.

The sound difference to the CD is amazing, so i decided to use this release for a quick compare between 24Bit Vinyl Rips and standard 16Bit CD Rips.

I used the the Album "(What's the Story) Morning Glory" and there the track "Wonderwall" - i think an acoustic track my show it better.

The CD version i used is the one you can download here at FLACShare - and the vinyl will be available soon.

Here is the optical compare:

First the loudness.



As you can see the CD version is much louder and less dynamic.

Now the spectrum.

Here the direct compare between 24Bit and 16Bit:



Here i compared the original 16Bit CD with a downsampled 16Bit Vinyl:





I just made an sample of both versions so that you can directly compare the sound:

http://rapidshare.com/files/277570292/osis.rar

When i directly listen to both recordings the CD Version sounds like recorded with an tape recorder in front of speakers inside of a metal trash can...

What is your opinion?

Definitely an interesting comparison. As I'm not a vinyl person, I've never really heard the same thing side by side. I can see where you're coming from with your take on the cd rip stuff. It does sound a bit harsh at points but I feel like the vinyl lacks some of the clarity of the cd's which i've come to appreciate. The instruments blended better with the vinyl in my opinion. I'm not really an oasis fan but I didn't really care for the way those tracks were recorded/mixed/mastered. Some of that I'm sure is that my source is the internal sound card in my laptop...I do have my grado/alesandro MS1's plugged into the jack though.

Just My opinion for what it's worth.

GrantD

I kind of got the opposite feeling from listening to the 16-bit and 24-bit version of the song. To me, the 24 bit sounded slightly cleaner and less obtrusive, while the 16-bit vocals sound way too bloated for my taste.

Is it like this in all cases of vinyl versus cds, or vinyl versus remastered cds? I'm interested to see how vinyl holds up to other genres of music, such as instrumental/classical.

Also, I think alot of the equiptment you use could have an effect on how it sounds, I've heard grado cans are definately a different experience compared to other headphones (I mean it in a good way). I'm using a pair of studio headphones, so that could be a reason why I prefer the 24-bit better.

Anyone else have an input/preference? I would love to hear some more opinions.

Actually the LP is remastered ;-) Normally i would prefer the vinyl over a CD because they are mostly not that "loud". CD Mastering includes a limiter or normalizing most of the time. It sounds more aggresive. An interesting article about this can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

So i stroll around the flea markets and try to find old original LP pressings or at least 1st Press CDs to avoid this loudness.



Exactly what i think. But this is not only at vinyl it´s also at SACDs - but vinyl is way cheaper^^. The magic is the 24Bit.



Definitely all equipment is important. The recording itself would sound different if i would have recorded it on an direct drive instead of an belt drive table, the cartridge is very important and the recording equipment. By now my ripping equipment costs about 600€ - and that´s just middle class ;-)

And the same is about the listening - as grantd said: Cheap soundcards and/or cheap HiFi or Earphones smaller the advantage of 24Bit, of course. The main interesting fact is, that you always hear a difference!

So, the conclusion is -
if u don;t have proper equipment, don't bother making the difference between 24bit and 16bit. There are peoples who can't even tell difference between mp3 320kbit/s and flac, so its a rough comparisson.

well, if anyone is planning in the future to have a hi-fi stereo when they get the dough, its not a bad idea to start collecting 24bit source files if you can handle the extra filesizes. i can't hear the difference between 16bit and 24bit. but i can certainly discern mp3 from flac, usually by the dynamic range alone. quiet parts are quieter and louder parts are louder.

so, wait, was the vinyl remastered and the cd is the original master? 24bit vinyl vs 16bit cd comparison is moot if the files weren't mastered the same. do we have spectral views of the 16bit cd original master release for reference?

Hehe, never thought of this - don´t exactly know if the CD version here was a remaster... But i will check my collection for an other example with the same mastering.

Ok, here it is:

Johnny Cash - American IV: The Man Comes Around

First Press DoLP (440 063 336-1)

vs.

First Press CD (440 063 339-2)




Loudness: The CD release is way to loud, better visible at hurt, btw.



Range: Sad to see here, that they used the the same range for the LP version.

Sample:

interesting post here .... I have some questions thou

1. Can you burn 24bit flac files to cd or do they have to be burned to dvd ?

2. Do you need to convert them to plain audio files or can you just leave them as flac files

3 If they are converted to regular audio files , how do you maintain the 24bit encoding (dont most programs automatically convert to 16bit 44Khz audio)

Hi there:

1: You can´t burn them as Audio CD. The so-called "red-book standard" does only allow 16Bit 44.1kHz. If you want to burn it for portable use in a Standalone Player you need the DVD. But thats rather complicated.

2: I don´t understand this correctly... For playback on your system you need no conversion if you have flac installed. For burning you will always need to convert Flac to Wave.

3: Regular audio file would mean Wave. Then the 24Bit encoding should be still there, except you choose 16Bit in the conversion progress. If you convert the to MP3 f.e. the 24Bit must be downgraded to 16/44.1 because this format does not allow high sampling - and don´t need it btw.

These spectral views are very interesting indeed and before arriving here at FS I have not paid any real attention to them (I am a noob here) but the spectral views confirm what I already know from years of listening, I always reckon that my turntable has much better mid to high frequency dynamics and clarity than most cds and that most cds have more low frequency impact which I have always thought is because on cds they use much more sound compression to make them sound louder. Of course another problem is normalising cd tracks takes most of the dynamic headroom away and often it ends up that there is only a small difference in level between quiet passages of music and the loudest passages of music which can spoil the ambience.
These spectral plots look like a bloody good tool thanks for the insight everyone. See an old dog can learn new tricks lol

Hmmmmm I know what I will be playing with this coming weekend hehehe

Thanks again
joffa

@luckburz

I´m using now this thread to say you how thankful I´m for your work.

You made me beeing a vinyl fan ! (again .. ;) )

I hope so much that you dont stop to up more of them :)

I´m very interested in the Hardware you use? Which Vinyl Player and which sound Card? any Programm for cleaning them? (i don´t hope so ;) )

Best wishes from Germany , and thanks again!
Dan

Hallo, schön einen Landsmann zu sehen... ;-)

First: Thanks for your words! It´s a pleasure to me that you like it! And there are a lot more to come... ;-)

In my posts is my equipment and the used software mentioned.

I use a Dual 505-3 "audiophile concept" Belt Drive Turntable. It´s a vintage table from the 70´s which was professionally renewed (new cables, belt and cleaning).

Image: http://www.hifi-wiki.de/images/b/b4/DUAL-CS505-3_1.JPG

As cartridge i use a Audio Technica AT-120E which sounds really nice with this table and tonearm. I choose it because it has the best ratings in its price segment with the highest frequency response.

Image: http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/S...dge_collage.JPG

Info: http://www.tonnadel-gleich.de/assets/s2dma...eme/at120e.html

As a preamp i use also a vintage one: Kenwood C1.

Image: http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/8790..._kenwood-c1.jpg

I used to use my soundcard for recordings earlier (Theatron Agrippa), but got to know that it records not really 24-96 and has disturbance from inside my PC. Thinking about a Audiotrak Prodigy and a new try with direct recording, but by now is use an Edirol R09HR 24/96-Wave-Recorder. I bought it last year for bootleging, but for vinyl rips it´s even better...;-)

Image: http://www.musik-schmidt.de/images/product...irol-R09-HR.jpg

Info: http://www.testberichte.de/test/produkt_te..._09_p82270.html

For tracksplitting i use Wavelab 5 and for downsampling to 16 Bit Adobe Audition.

The only bit of cleaning i use is ClickRepair. It´s a wonderful prog which is used by many vinyl-rippers because it cuts clicks and pops so precise that you can´t do it manually better. But you must be careful: Very low setting (3/0) and manual mode to check if it´s really a click...

Info: http://www.clickrepair.net/

Cheers,

burzel

I have a Rega P5 right now, which is a good turntable, but since my cartridge and preamp are lacking I still don't get near as good of a sound as I can from my PC->DAC->Headphone Amp. That is why I buy CD's now. I generally listen to stuff from before the 90's, so most of the CD's I buy don't have the loudness that you are showing.

In conclusion. A turntable is only as good as your weakest component, so if you are thinking of making the switch to vinyl make sure to invest in an entire rig (turntable, cartridge, preamp, and power/integrated amp). If not CD's are the way to go.

I don't know if this really added to the conversation, but I wanted to point this out to people that thought vinyl would sound better than FLAC no matter what they bought.

Totally agree with this point. This solutions ala 200$ Turntable with USB will never sound any good. You surely have to invest some money and - much more important - time to come to good results.

But it doesn´t have to be the audiophile setup with 800$ cartridges and cables more expansive than your whole record collection ;-)

Nevertheless: A 24Bit Vinyl Rip will sound more warm and intense than the CD version in most cases. But you´re wright: 1st press CD versions from the 80s will sound very good as well!